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> Anyway to get waterline and other ops to plunge in predrilled hole as start?, need help to designate a start point for none center cutting tools
Val
post May 19 2014, 08:05 PM
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Hi, I have a simple part that I made, GMD file and SC 7 file in zip file for testing.
What I want is the 3/4 EM to plunge in the predrilled hole always for all its paths. I would like to know how this is possible with waterline and other automatic operations.

I can force at times with 2d counter by doing lead in/out and dragging the start point to try and match the area were the drill had gone, but that is time consuming and does not always work as efficient, and requires at times drawing a lot of 2D geometry to get it to work, and end up cutting air as well at times.

If someone knows how to assign the start/end point of waterline/plane and other operations, that would be great, please do so with SC7 if possible
One of the major reasons to do this is that the use of roughing and hogger endmills, that do not cut with center, require a predrill in some area of the part. Without the ability to start and end at the plunge predrill hole it is impossible to machine effectively with those tools.

I have added same part with few more things in the way, making something like this difficult to do with 2D contouring method that I normally do. The zip file ending with 2


Thank you.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  basic_part_test.zip ( 134.04K ) Number of downloads: 3
Attached File  basic_part_test2.zip ( 153.12K ) Number of downloads: 5
 
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Sprut_UK
post May 20 2014, 04:17 PM
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From the SprutCAM 7 help files: Waterline roughing operation

QUOTE
Transition to the next machining depth can be achieved either by using one of the plunge methods (axial, by spiral, zigzag), or through drill points. If the latter method is used, a search is made for a hole of an appropriate depth/diameter. The search will first be made in the list of holes for the operation, and then in the open list of holes for the machining process. If no appropriate hole can been found, then the system will select appropriate coordinates for it automatically, at an optimal position. The coordinates for the center of the new hole, if possible, are rounded. If when the operation was created, the hole machining operation was chosen as its prototype, then the list of holes will be copied into the operation and used when searching for appropriate hole for tool plunging.


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Val
post May 20 2014, 05:46 PM
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[attachment=297:Basic_part_test2.jpg]
QUOTE (Sprut_UK @ May 20 2014, 09:17 AM) *
From the SprutCAM 7 help files: Waterline roughing operation


thank you, I went and tried the drill hole area, and it seems to work for when the hole is the corner, but if the hole is of to the side it will still pick the corner radius as its center point for plunging, which is not the center of the hole that was pre drilled, and leadin/out does not work, for example I had selected spiral, it worked fine on letting the software pick its plunge points, but once I put the hole it does a straight plunge. blink.gif

But at least its a start, I can work around this short coming with possibly a 2D pocket or a hole spiral machining in center of the pre drill opening up the area for the waterline plunge, at least this gives me better predictability of the tool start/end points.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Basic_part_test2.jpg ( 113.13K ) Number of downloads: 7
 
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tkgb
post May 20 2014, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (Sprut_UK @ May 20 2014, 04:17 PM) *
From the SprutCAM 7 help files: Waterline roughing operation


If the endmill dont plunge correct in the predrilled hole you can manually change the cordinates were it should plunge down.
You do that by using the "holes" icon that look simular to the work assignment icon.

Lead out seem to work really bad in the pocketing operations sad.gif

Tommy
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Val
post May 20 2014, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (tkgb @ May 20 2014, 11:25 AM) *
If the endmill dont plunge correct in the predrilled hole you can manually change the cordinates were it should plunge down.
You do that by using the "holes" icon that look simular to the work assignment icon.

Lead out seem to work really bad in the pocketing operations sad.gif

Tommy


yes thats what I did in my example with the picture, you can download the zip with the 2 ending and open the SC7 file, and try it for yourself, my testing shows that sprutcam for whatever reason likes to go off of the radius closest instead of the hole. Thats my results, unless I missed something then I am welcome for correcting my error and would be quite excited to know that it works as intended
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tkgb
post May 20 2014, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (Val @ May 20 2014, 06:35 PM) *
yes thats what I did in my example with the picture, you can download the zip with the 2 ending and open the SC7 file, and try it for yourself, my testing shows that sprutcam for whatever reason likes to go off of the radius closest instead of the hole. Thats my results, unless I missed something then I am welcome for correcting my error and would be quite excited to know that it works as intended


I tried it and i get the same result as you so your right that plunge in to a hole dont work so good in the waterline roughing operation.
It seems to work better when i tried the pocketing operation so if you can do the part in 2 different pocketing operations maybe thats an option.

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Sprut_UK
post May 22 2014, 12:21 PM
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You didn't have the hole in the holes list for the Waterline roughing operation. I have added this in the attached revised version.
If you are using an already drilled hole (not produced within SprutCAM), just create the 'Hole' in the Waterline roughing operation at the required X/Y plunge position.
If you are pre-drilling it in SprutCAM first, you can select to 'Fill parameters' from the existing 'Hole machining' operation which will put the 'Hole' into the holes list automatically for you.

Note: because the waterline roughing operation only machines the workpiece, and the Hole machining operation actually removes a portion of the workpiece, when you pre-drill it in SprutCAM, you will need to either:
Disable the Hole machining operation while you calculate the Roughing waterline operation, or, as I have done with your project, create a new workpiece for the Waterline roughing operation.

I hope this helps?

Dave
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Basic_part_test_dp.zip ( 78.99K ) Number of downloads: 4
Attached File  22_05_2014_13_27_33.jpg ( 85.32K ) Number of downloads: 7
 


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Val
post May 22 2014, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE (Sprut_UK @ May 22 2014, 05:21 AM) *
You didn't have the hole in the holes list for the Waterline roughing operation. I have added this in the attached revised version.
If you are using an already drilled hole (not produced within SprutCAM), just create the 'Hole' in the Waterline roughing operation at the required X/Y plunge position.
If you are pre-drilling it in SprutCAM first, you can select to 'Fill parameters' from the existing 'Hole machining' operation which will put the 'Hole' into the holes list automatically for you.

Note: because the waterline roughing operation only machines the workpiece, and the Hole machining operation actually removes a portion of the workpiece, when you pre-drill it in SprutCAM, you will need to either:
Disable the Hole machining operation while you calculate the Roughing waterline operation, or, as I have done with your project, create a new workpiece for the Waterline roughing operation.

I hope this helps?

Dave



Thank you that trick for fill by operation is good. Yes you are correct the two samples did not have the hole defined in the waterline, my other replies were after I noticed that feature and was testing it out, I was saying that there is a glitch, and you can see in my example as the other user saw the error.

SC will work best for predrill hole if the hole is on a corner of the workpiece, if it is not it plunges still to the closest corner center points, I have went and tested this in many of my parts.


It seems that If the person DOES NOT do the previous workpiece for that operation without the predrill hole in it, the waterline even with the hole defined will plungs to closest corner! This is what me and the other user noticed.

The key is the previous workpiece without the predrill hole calculated. Its a bit backwards but it works as you have stated, otherwise SC will put it to nearest corner so it seems.
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Val
post May 22 2014, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (tkgb @ May 20 2014, 12:42 PM) *
I tried it and i get the same result as you so your right that plunge in to a hole dont work so good in the waterline roughing operation.
It seems to work better when i tried the pocketing operation so if you can do the part in 2 different pocketing operations maybe thats an option.



TKGB, do what Sprut UK stated, and that is to reset the predrill calculation, and then add the previous workpiece, once that is done and you have that hole defined in the waterline, go back and calculate the predrill hole, now if you go to simulate you will see that the tool plunges on center of the predrill, even in the test_2 part

this order seems critical, I hope I can apply this in every part, seems strange that the user has to delete the predrill operation calculation and then add the workpiece without it in the waterline or other operation, with defining the hole and then going back to calculate the pre drill hole. BUT IT works!
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Sprut_UK
post May 23 2014, 04:21 PM
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Try reducing the drill diameter to be at most equal to, or smaller than the cylindrical mill that is used in the waterline roughing operation and it works correctly without having to temporarily disable the hole machining operation or replacing the workpiece for the waterline roughing.
You can of course still use the correct drill size on the machine itself, just reduce the drill size used within the pre-drill operation (in SprutCAM).

Dave
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Basic_part_test_dp1.zip ( 78.96K ) Number of downloads: 2
 


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tkgb
post May 25 2014, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE (Sprut_UK @ May 23 2014, 04:21 PM) *
Try reducing the drill diameter to be at most equal to, or smaller than the cylindrical mill that is used in the waterline roughing operation and it works correctly without having to temporarily disable the hole machining operation or replacing the workpiece for the waterline roughing.
You can of course still use the correct drill size on the machine itself, just reduce the drill size used within the pre-drill operation (in SprutCAM).

Dave


I tried it and it works fine so that was really good info smile.gif
I allmost never use plunge in to a predrilled hole on my parts,but its good to know that it can be used.

tommy
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